The Parish of All Saints, Berrington
Public Consultation Meeting
Wednesday 18th October 2017 - Berrington Church 7pm
Welcome Prayer – Rev. Sarah Hare
Introductions – Rev. Sarah Hare, Richard Ward (Churchwarden), Mark Harris (Churchwarden),
Bishop Alistair Magowan (Bishop of Ludlow) Rev. Matthew Stafford (Rector in Charge Wenlock Team)
Mark Harris – outlined the general feeling of the PCC, who have over the past few years found it very difficult to be motivated when the support for events and more importantly the lack of congregation at each of the services has led them to this decision. It is not that they wish to see the church close, but as a place of Worship it appears to have run it’s course. This is the third occasion in the last 15 years that closure has been considered.
Rev. Sarah Hare – the PCC approached Sarah and Matthew in May to discuss potential options for Berrington Church and a meeting was held with the PCC. Following this meeting, Bishop Alistair was contacted and visited the Parish for an overview. Rev Sarah has completed the Church Building Council report and Sarah Girling and Tim Bridges also visited to complete the report for the Church Buildings Council. Berrington being the Parish Church, with Betton which is a Chapel of Ease offer a range of services together with an informal worship at Cross Houses Community Centre, even this has not increased the congregation. The Services at Cross Houses will cease in December. Betton does not have to close if Berrington does but will need to have a separate consultation as this would lose the structure of the current PCC. In the Wenlock Team there are 14 churches, some are struggling and Cressage is currently going through the potential closure process.
Rev. Matthew Stafford – The Ministry will continue even if Berrington closes, we just need to go about things in a different way. We need to act in the best interest of Berrington, it’s about sorting out how the people are looked after, not just the Building.
Bishop Alistair – We no longer use the term ‘Redundant Church’ the building will be ‘no longer used for regular public services’ but this isn’t irreversible. There are instances where churches have been closed but later re-opened. If the building is handed over to another organisation we hope to maintain access. It is hoped that the building can be maintained in reasonable order, there are of course many churches in this situation and the funding will always be stretched. Berrington is a listed building and this is to our advantage. The Churches Conservation Trust (supported by the State) would be one option, another would be that it is supported by the Diocese, in which case some services may still be possible. Even if the building closes the churchyard may still be open for burials as burial plots are in short supply but would need to be managed locally by a PCC. However funeral services would not be held in the church.
Questions were invited;
Q. If either of the suggested organisations take over the church, who will be responsible for it’s upkeep.
A. Bishop Alistair – in either case full responsibility will be with the organisation, who takes over.
Q. What are the timescales for closure – if it goes ahead?
A. Bishop Alistair – difficult to say at this stage, but it’s likely to be months not weeks
Q. What is the likelihood of the Churches Conservation Trust taking it on?
A. Bishop Alistair - Difficult to say as they are Government funded, but they look after the greatest number of listed buildings in the country. (The National Trust are 2nd).
Q. Is there anything we can do to make it more appealing to the Churches Conservation Trust?
A. Bishop Alistair -The building’s assets are key, anything of National Importance, ie wooden carving, Waterloo headstone, War Memorial, these will help.
Q Is there a possibility of the building being used for something we don’t like?
A. Bishop Alistair - We can’t control what is done with it once we hand over responsibility, but it’s unlikely given it being a listed building.
Q. The PCC can’t go on paying bills indefinitely, would a letter asking for assistance help?
A. Rev. Sarah – we have asked what happens when the money runs out and there is no answer to this!
Q. Can we guarantee that the church will be maintained and the contents protected if someone else takes over, we recently did a great deal of fundraising to repair the roof.
A. Bishop Alistair – All organisations have limited funds, but they will do their best to maintain the building
A. Rev Sarah – With the present set of circumstances even if the church doesn’t close there is no guarantee that the PCC (who are responsible as trustees) can maintain it as funds are running very low.
A. Parishioner – The Churches Conservation trust currently looks after over 300 churches, so funding is stretched even with them.
Q. What have the PCC done to gauge community feeling about the closure.
A. Bishop Alistair – of the 800 parishioners, we have only about 20 people here
A. PCC - 22 present and 9 of those are members of the PCC or their partners.
Continued.
A. PCC – we have recently leafleted every house -hold in the parish with a questionnaire. We didn’t get a single response.
A. PCC – I have been coming to this church since birth, I was christened, married, my daughters christened and married here. I don’t want to see the church close but even I can see that as a place of worship it’s no longer viable.
Q. As a new member of the community I value the Church as a centre of the community and would be happy to support it in any way. Can we help to raise funds?
A. PCC – the fundraising isn’t the core of the problem, it’s the lack of congregation.
Q. I would love to see the church building used, but how likely is it to be used for something like a cafe or nightclub where it will become unrecognisable as a church?
A. Bishop Alistair – unlikely, again because of it’s listed status.
Q, What will the church be like with no services?
A Rev. Matthew – parishioners are often territorial, they don’t go to other churches. But there are other churches in the team where they can worship regularly
A Rev. Sarah – Berrington is on the far edge of the team, if the building closes that could change and there are other parishes close by.
A Rev. Matthew – no-one wants to do this, the PCC are taking responsibility and have had the spiritual maturity to deal with the situation in the best way possible by having this consultation.
Q. The PCC were recently approached about installing a mobile phone mast in the church. How can we prevent the new ‘owners’ from going ahead?
A. Bishop Alistair – we can’t guarantee that won’t happen, but that is something that can be opposed to if comes up in the future.
A. PCC - there has recently been a successful application to install a mast in Cross Houses so it’s unlikely this will happen.
Q. As a non parishioner but someone who is interested in the bells here at Berrington, are we still going to be able to come and ring the bells?
A. Bishop Alistair - It will depend on who takes on the building and they need to ensure that they are maintained and insurance covers their use.
Bishop Alistair - Nothing is sure until the reports come back to the PCC and the Church Commissioners can review them. They will be reporting on Architectural, Historical, Location and Listing.
Q. Who called the meeting and what will happen if the PCC goes?
A. Bishop Alistair – the PCC called the meeting and at the moment the PCC is still taking responsibility for the building.
Q. Who will be responsible for the churchyard if the church closes?
A. Bishop Alistair – Full Churchyards that are closed are usually maintained by the Parish Council. But the Churchyard currently in use is unlikely to close as there is a national shortage of graveyard spaces.
Mark - We will consult again when we have more information available.
Bishop Alistair - Timescales are still to be confirmed. But we can assure you that the Diocese will not close the church, it is up to the local people. If as a consequence of tonight the congregation changes heart then no-one could be happier than I.
Rev. Matthew - we hope you will go away feeling more informed and have a better understanding of the process but both Sarah and I are available if you need us.
Meeting closed.
Attended by; 15 Parishioners & 8 PCC
Wednesday 18th October 2017 - Berrington Church 7pm
Welcome Prayer – Rev. Sarah Hare
Introductions – Rev. Sarah Hare, Richard Ward (Churchwarden), Mark Harris (Churchwarden),
Bishop Alistair Magowan (Bishop of Ludlow) Rev. Matthew Stafford (Rector in Charge Wenlock Team)
Mark Harris – outlined the general feeling of the PCC, who have over the past few years found it very difficult to be motivated when the support for events and more importantly the lack of congregation at each of the services has led them to this decision. It is not that they wish to see the church close, but as a place of Worship it appears to have run it’s course. This is the third occasion in the last 15 years that closure has been considered.
Rev. Sarah Hare – the PCC approached Sarah and Matthew in May to discuss potential options for Berrington Church and a meeting was held with the PCC. Following this meeting, Bishop Alistair was contacted and visited the Parish for an overview. Rev Sarah has completed the Church Building Council report and Sarah Girling and Tim Bridges also visited to complete the report for the Church Buildings Council. Berrington being the Parish Church, with Betton which is a Chapel of Ease offer a range of services together with an informal worship at Cross Houses Community Centre, even this has not increased the congregation. The Services at Cross Houses will cease in December. Betton does not have to close if Berrington does but will need to have a separate consultation as this would lose the structure of the current PCC. In the Wenlock Team there are 14 churches, some are struggling and Cressage is currently going through the potential closure process.
Rev. Matthew Stafford – The Ministry will continue even if Berrington closes, we just need to go about things in a different way. We need to act in the best interest of Berrington, it’s about sorting out how the people are looked after, not just the Building.
Bishop Alistair – We no longer use the term ‘Redundant Church’ the building will be ‘no longer used for regular public services’ but this isn’t irreversible. There are instances where churches have been closed but later re-opened. If the building is handed over to another organisation we hope to maintain access. It is hoped that the building can be maintained in reasonable order, there are of course many churches in this situation and the funding will always be stretched. Berrington is a listed building and this is to our advantage. The Churches Conservation Trust (supported by the State) would be one option, another would be that it is supported by the Diocese, in which case some services may still be possible. Even if the building closes the churchyard may still be open for burials as burial plots are in short supply but would need to be managed locally by a PCC. However funeral services would not be held in the church.
Questions were invited;
Q. If either of the suggested organisations take over the church, who will be responsible for it’s upkeep.
A. Bishop Alistair – in either case full responsibility will be with the organisation, who takes over.
Q. What are the timescales for closure – if it goes ahead?
A. Bishop Alistair – difficult to say at this stage, but it’s likely to be months not weeks
Q. What is the likelihood of the Churches Conservation Trust taking it on?
A. Bishop Alistair - Difficult to say as they are Government funded, but they look after the greatest number of listed buildings in the country. (The National Trust are 2nd).
Q. Is there anything we can do to make it more appealing to the Churches Conservation Trust?
A. Bishop Alistair -The building’s assets are key, anything of National Importance, ie wooden carving, Waterloo headstone, War Memorial, these will help.
Q Is there a possibility of the building being used for something we don’t like?
A. Bishop Alistair - We can’t control what is done with it once we hand over responsibility, but it’s unlikely given it being a listed building.
Q. The PCC can’t go on paying bills indefinitely, would a letter asking for assistance help?
A. Rev. Sarah – we have asked what happens when the money runs out and there is no answer to this!
Q. Can we guarantee that the church will be maintained and the contents protected if someone else takes over, we recently did a great deal of fundraising to repair the roof.
A. Bishop Alistair – All organisations have limited funds, but they will do their best to maintain the building
A. Rev Sarah – With the present set of circumstances even if the church doesn’t close there is no guarantee that the PCC (who are responsible as trustees) can maintain it as funds are running very low.
A. Parishioner – The Churches Conservation trust currently looks after over 300 churches, so funding is stretched even with them.
Q. What have the PCC done to gauge community feeling about the closure.
A. Bishop Alistair – of the 800 parishioners, we have only about 20 people here
A. PCC - 22 present and 9 of those are members of the PCC or their partners.
Continued.
A. PCC – we have recently leafleted every house -hold in the parish with a questionnaire. We didn’t get a single response.
A. PCC – I have been coming to this church since birth, I was christened, married, my daughters christened and married here. I don’t want to see the church close but even I can see that as a place of worship it’s no longer viable.
Q. As a new member of the community I value the Church as a centre of the community and would be happy to support it in any way. Can we help to raise funds?
A. PCC – the fundraising isn’t the core of the problem, it’s the lack of congregation.
Q. I would love to see the church building used, but how likely is it to be used for something like a cafe or nightclub where it will become unrecognisable as a church?
A. Bishop Alistair – unlikely, again because of it’s listed status.
Q, What will the church be like with no services?
A Rev. Matthew – parishioners are often territorial, they don’t go to other churches. But there are other churches in the team where they can worship regularly
A Rev. Sarah – Berrington is on the far edge of the team, if the building closes that could change and there are other parishes close by.
A Rev. Matthew – no-one wants to do this, the PCC are taking responsibility and have had the spiritual maturity to deal with the situation in the best way possible by having this consultation.
Q. The PCC were recently approached about installing a mobile phone mast in the church. How can we prevent the new ‘owners’ from going ahead?
A. Bishop Alistair – we can’t guarantee that won’t happen, but that is something that can be opposed to if comes up in the future.
A. PCC - there has recently been a successful application to install a mast in Cross Houses so it’s unlikely this will happen.
Q. As a non parishioner but someone who is interested in the bells here at Berrington, are we still going to be able to come and ring the bells?
A. Bishop Alistair - It will depend on who takes on the building and they need to ensure that they are maintained and insurance covers their use.
Bishop Alistair - Nothing is sure until the reports come back to the PCC and the Church Commissioners can review them. They will be reporting on Architectural, Historical, Location and Listing.
Q. Who called the meeting and what will happen if the PCC goes?
A. Bishop Alistair – the PCC called the meeting and at the moment the PCC is still taking responsibility for the building.
Q. Who will be responsible for the churchyard if the church closes?
A. Bishop Alistair – Full Churchyards that are closed are usually maintained by the Parish Council. But the Churchyard currently in use is unlikely to close as there is a national shortage of graveyard spaces.
Mark - We will consult again when we have more information available.
Bishop Alistair - Timescales are still to be confirmed. But we can assure you that the Diocese will not close the church, it is up to the local people. If as a consequence of tonight the congregation changes heart then no-one could be happier than I.
Rev. Matthew - we hope you will go away feeling more informed and have a better understanding of the process but both Sarah and I are available if you need us.
Meeting closed.
Attended by; 15 Parishioners & 8 PCC